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  • Agustín García Calvo
  • Agustín García Calvo (1926-2012)
  • Agustín Esquema del Lenguaje - Ella
Home » Conferences » Conference. Sport, play and competition. AGC. IIE

Conference. Sport, play and competition. AGC. IIE

Conference. Sport, play and competition. AGC. IIE
Conference. Sports, play and competition. AGC. Institute of Engineering of Spain


Inaugural lecture: Agustín García Calvo

July 6, 2009

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     MA-Good afternoon. We will make a brief presentation and then take the word Don Agustin.

This is the XIX Summer School organized by the Civil Engineering and Engineering Society Foundation. Every year, me, I'm your President, it seems a miracle and get start and finish the course. It is a proactive Foundation and thanks to the enormous effort of Angel Guerrero, its Secretary General, I have here at my lao, the truth is that every year we get this our biggest challenge is to continue uninterruptedly these summer courses that held since its founding, and for such a small foundation, then, the truth is that it is a win do year after year.

This year's theme is Engineering the Olympics. We, most of us are civil engineers and sports, as we like relatively, right? We like what they play, we like what we have for personal enjoyment, the body; Brands we like and less accurate measurements of the minutes and seconds, but we understand that is necessary, and above all we love about the Olympics its ability to mobilize citizens around a goal and get turned upside down city to improve it. That we like and have found it an interesting topic for this course.

We really meant people now Vincent Black, who is Co-Director me of this course, you will, but we will have a review, we will give an overview of the issues of facilities and services that move the Olympics with a step back to the seaside to continue there watching what we do.

I welcome this with Agustín García Calvo and again thank you for being here with us. Vicente will now very briefly the program and immediately begin your conference.

     VN - Good afternoon everyone. I went over 19 years of my life because the first of the courses we did in Segovia, and was a Course for Rural Tourism in relation to a hierarchy of systems [oceros / coastal /]; then went over the second, where we made a LVEF along the Cantabrian coast; then we have gone from Segovia to Toledo, to the Expo, and now Valencia, and I think it is truly a miracle. I also think this is another miracle right? And a miracle where we will combine a number of meanings of the Olympics, specifically The keys to success, a conference that is going to give Don Manuel Fonseca; then we will have a series of visits, especially to the Magic Box, we will do tomorrow; the design of some of the most iconic, such as the comb or Rockódromo where Miguel Gómez Navarro and structures come to tell us. Then, a few key issues in a few games and especially urban planning, which is the mobility and transport in the Olympics, where the director will come ... the Regional Transport Consortium; and then we will, of course, forms, and especially the design, Architecture and Engineering, with a reflection on the Olympic Stadium.

Then, as Michael also said, give a jump to Valencia, because Madrid will not be a single seat, but it will have a number of sub-offices, and (in the hypothetical case, of course, that in October we give the Games) Valencia and maybe we will see one of the most emblematic works of the 2010 to 2015 which is the expansion of the Port Valencia right?

And so I just wanted to say before closing, is to give gratitude to Miguel, and especially Angel. A Angel 30 years I know you do, and if it were not for him, I am a person who falls in stress and to some extent many times in disappointment, and if not for him pushing me, click me, many sometimes things would not come. And especially thanks to you and, well, of course thanks to the speakers, and thank you [to come].

     AGC-Well, you could be for ...

     VN - Then [in a while we climbed some, yes.]

     AGC - A few years ago, one of the times that this great friendship that show me the civil engineers and now I show it again, and through the efforts of my old friend Angel Guerrero, I participated in one of these summer sessions, in that case it was the Water Engineering and with this occasion, as I had to make the start of the Olympic I Pindar, now, for very different reasons, we will come pretty well to introduce some of what I say.

One of the songs chorus of hymns that were sung on the occasion of the celebrations of these sporting events (such to modern) and were mainly Olympic, or also Pythian, and Isthmian, and here, as Pindar, great poet and musician of the time at the same time, was responsible for making one of these hymns that the choir had to sing numerous danzándolo to step, no less right?

This is what it is, and I will to recite in its metro, canturrearos on your meter, Olympic I start this, but first I am going to say more or less what it says, current Spanish. What comes to say is this:

"Most good water; Also more gold, like a blazing fire, shines in the night above the wealth magnifies the man; but if you want to praise games, my heart, and do not go looking for more in the desert sky warmer and brighter star than the sun in broad daylight, no grander than the Olympia contest can never sing. "

This is the beginning, it's not even the entire first verse. And this sounds more or less like this:

Ariston Men hudor, ho chrusós aithómenon Pur
Hate diaprépei nuktí megánoros éxocha ploútou:
i d 'áethla garúen
éldeai, ETOR Philon,
mekéth 'halíou skópei
Allo thalpnóteron in hamérai phaennòn Eremas Astron di 'aithéros,
med 'Olumpías phérteron audásomen Agona.

Well, here's why they sack you this strange product so far from everything that is usually understood by poetry or literature in the manuals. It is my amazement a monstrosity, that it could happen with choral singing and athletic games in ancient Greece.

Just to let you participate in something of this monstrosity impression that since my start humming the Olympic I, I feel a little haberselo made ​​flesh: the excessive waste in Olympia mainly, but also in some of the other sites where the games were held, large crowds gathered, ran money to pay the best poets (Pindar, to Bacquílides), to support the huge chorus, and what corodidáscalo teach dance. And this again and again, and everything in the middle of the games of the tournament, and in celebration of the victory of the horse carts of some of the tyrants who subsidize this function Olympics, Isthmian, Pythian, or what it was.

You could follow them showing the splendors and exaggeration, but I think if they are driven around with what I've told them they have to stay pretty amazed.How can this be! They starting with the fact that how can occur something like what I just canturrearles: are a long stanzas in superferolítico language, eminent, oblivious to the vocabulary of any of the Greek dialects of ordinary people, and sung to the sound of music undoubtedly relatively simple compared to ours, the great choir had to dance in step with subsequent rounds; and a crowd that attended, most illiterate, of course.

This may reflect grandeur in this spectacular and amazing that I, after years, never quite understand how poetry could occur. How such a turgid, twisted poetry, he could use to chant in a choir, and that crowds attend to it, not patiently, but perhaps taste, never ceases to amaze; The more I got into it, the wonder has not only grown.

Do we find in the current situation, the resurrected Olympics, something like this? Well, certainly not the same type, even if you do not know the conclusion of the current Olympic Games, or generally large sporting events, is interspersed occasionally also an active stage for some of the idols of singing that is more or less fashionable, and also drag the crowds in general often without understanding what they hear, but still no that can compare the lyrics of any of the productions, the Pop or the like, with this Pindar superferolítica letter I told. But something is so. Far are, for the appearance of the heating for baseball games in the United States at the beginning of the function or interspersed between the acts of the function, which are also far from what I've told them to ancient Greece, but that continues to be amazing and also something monstrous.

In any case, what is beyond doubt is that the arts are unleashed all around the celebration of sporting events, the Olympic Games, accompanying, and this can happen as a matter of course, because we are accustomed to in news Media, as well as pass the monstrosities of Pindar in the manuals of literature, because literature is, this can happen as well, so would not want to happen between you and me at this time, all this also has some amazing of espantablemente great, of monstrous.

Among the Arts course this can not absolve Architecture and Engineering, on will still awhile. Also among the ancients, of course, any of the leading architects and engineers, Hippodamus or anyone might be willing to arrange fields and ways of celebrating the big games, but of course today, among us, the thing goes far big and spectacular, because that have been progressing a few centuries.

It is undoubtedly a swarm of architects and engineers getting ready for the preparation of the upcoming Olympic Games in ... (not: I do not know what, but, hey, to me, as you will understand, I do not care the year is, that does not count me in), but will certainly be ready, and is therefore time that ask me, ask ourselves, what the hell is what I'm doing in this preparation of this new act of the Olympic monstrosity I'm talking about them?, what do I come to do here led by the friendship of civil engineers and the commitment of Warrior Angel?

Well, I come to do something I'm doing for a little while, and understand that he could not come to anything. But before we proceed to examine the deception, the lie, which governs this Games, Game, Sport, I put forward a kind of statement a little, which, if not with me in which, of course we can not understand at all. The statement is this: anything that comes from Above, nothing to move Capital, can be good. Power, as powerful as it is, can not give the people any good. Power can not give more than substitutes, is for that, and all that power gives and delivers in spades, and also increasingly, are obvious substitutes, ie, mass replace and also avoid anything produced really good. Movement of Capital can not give any good. I say, to the extent that you hear such a statement to feel a little echaos p'atrás and ready to stow away and think I exaggerate, or be more or less, and that therefore to that extent we will not understand . We will not understand why it is necessary disappointment compared to what I have called surrogates, regarding production for the masses of people that dominate our world, to feel and understand something really at all what I am saying.

The deceptions are revealed in the words themselves (dwell on some nothing else): the word 'game' (which has become more common in modern European languages​​) has taken different meaning than it did in Latin iocus, that derive these modern words: iocus. Iocus was, among Latinos, but rather something like 'joke', something not at all serious case, is what I meant iocus; was opposed by both the seriousness and 'seriousness', as you know, between old and between us, really means 'business' (that is serious). So in that sense you can understand that iocus, the joke, the joke without a specific purpose, not for any kind of business can be a contrast; may explain why it has extended its meaning and has become the most common term among us, we're using right now: 'game'. It has thus acquired another meaning, a little Latin term that you know well, because many derivatives are used, ludus. Ludus, already among the Romans a term used for many types of games for the same theater, the ludi scaenici, and the amphitheater, and sports games that had come to degenerate functions amphitheater Roman, the Greek Olympics a few centuries earlier. All these were ludi, even gladiatorial death were part of ludi, and this was enclosed within the word 'game'.

Needless to tell you have to, and from the Republic, before the advent of Caesar and Augustus, the games they were made​​, especially in large centers such as Rome, for the formation of the crowds of people, people, citizens or aspiring citizens and to train naturally in distraction-in distraction-ludi that had to mean, ie, the not realize what is happening, in a word, the same as now.

If these memories of antiquity have some sense is not just to look at them as something alien, but that we recognize in the mirror; It's what I'm remembering them all these monstrosities, both of the ancient Greeks as the games of the Roman amphitheater and everything else.

The word ludus was also used for something else, which I'm going to stop for a moment, because it has also attempted to bring me ludus was used to designate the school of first letters; around education, deceit, between old and between us are whining, we all stumbled at every step if only a little Dig Deeper: the Greek word Schole (he meant 'leisure', the opposite of work, including Greek), Schole is the word that has been derived from the Latin through our 'school' and the term of the other European languages, school, etc.; all come from this Schole.

Imagine you trap that has preparao there, trapping the children, whom they were invited to go to leisure, recreation, as a way to get them into school, it was not nearly as well as leisure or recreation, but in some way otherwise. So, boys and girls since Roman ... (bah, from good families), they had to learn to read, the teacher had to take the ludus, play, like play, the poor, and the site where took them was the school of first letters, where-as we know-"the rod and spoil" among the Romans as among us, ie, the most serious most contrary thing imaginable and a game .

Therefore, as this issue is inseparable from the field of education of the sports field where we are now stuck, I also wanted to remind these appearances of deception everywhere.

This is what it is 'game' can we sound even a little like something actually free, which of course has nothing to do with the seriousness, has nothing to do with the business, not moving Capital: playing to play; assumes that children play, if allowed; Occasionally they are released to play. This is what resonates even though the term has perverted the way you tell them, but, as nothing ever closes completely even terms, as something we still resonating with the word 'game', and similar , which refers to how serious this freedom, business freedom, to the release of the sentence to work, that is, the movement of capital. Well see what happens, the transformation undergone by the game.

I say perhaps, some well-meaning as they have said, what perverts the game and makes it a forgery itself is competitive, the fact competitiveness. No, unfortunately it is something much deeper than that competitiveness is something that may not even interfere much, because also the children, when loosely they are left or were left to play, because the streets were not occupied by cars, finally, when there where the kids could let loose their sites, to themselves in many of the games had to invent competition, they had to invent to see who came first or who skipped more times, or faster, and that the truth is that I do not believe in themselves will remove the match that condition of freedom that was speaking; is something much more serious, the sentence is the end? purpose?, Time. The condition for a play off game really, really play, it would not have any purpose, to be played at all? For nothing? For nothing or no one knows why.

Well now you throw a view of the Olympics and sports in general competitions, throw a view and see how the presence of the end, the need for submission to a future planned and achieved, dominates everything so we can wonder also that there is still a chance we feel some play.

I confess that, having the repulsion that I have against the media, especially against television, but occasionally, I fall to see a football game, and try to enjoy, hopefully, one of those moments when the boys are playing really. Happens, happens a bit: I see them play really, clogged, if the TV has audio, news commentators generally engaged in telling stories about the biography of each of the players and especially what has he cost the country club, or whatever it is in question, and purchase equipment for the entire series of rolls that indeed almost leave no advantage of the few moments when you could see them playing, but instead are revealing all these information for what I'm trying to make them feel me. I mean, how to, empty time, and therefore the movement of Capital eat all I could be playing, or (as the example I put them) about everything, because nothing ever is the all closed, never is definitely made ​​for more than the Order intends yes, the Ideal pretend that yes, it is done. No, it's not. But almost everything, almost everything; eats almost everything. What is what newspapers are full of news about the Olympics, football competitions, any other? They are full of information about the end: player recruitment, the change of coach to get more, of course, is the league table, and climb the table as one of the conditions obviously play eat and because all is intended for the miracle to occur 0-1, thus, the team in question rises three places in the table, things like that.

These are the accounts, and this is what is spoken, and this is what it is, and this is what makes that may just be nothing to feel in games or anything else. The game becomes a job. The players, or dancers, or whatever, I speak calmly of his work, because this term is opposed to 'game', this work continues to reign with prestige 'work dignifies' remains, despite all the misery and decay in the job has fallen today, still continues to sing something like dignifying, and dancer, or the player will say it works, and somehow works, sweats; sweat workouts that can never be a game that are intended to achieve an end, an aim to improve, to achieve the higher speed: that's working. All that is working and is a job like any other.

I do not remember the girls involved in the competitions of dance, gymnastics or artistic or whatever, imagine these creatures working years to the parents and educators have had to submit to let those legs and that lightness and all that: an overwhelming for anyone who wants to consider, which naturally leaves one by little heart that fit, not wanting to enjoy anything when he sees action in a competition and win a prize work; is in any case, a pity the condition of all that work. Is just one step of the gladiators in the Roman amphitheater of the Empire, where the end is actually present in the most brazen way that may be present in order, which is death; death always future.

So what the Game and could trasformase, are transformed in fact, have been transformed and are also increasingly adding to this submission to order that cancels any possibility of play, something happens no plans, no future and organized previously, which clearly are, as a child can find the steps of a game invented, is, and who does not obey any order from front to already established.

This is the story of what happens to us. They've estao counting on help from old memories, but to realize that the story I am telling you is the story of what happens to us now, and so do (and wish I could that all hearts remain devastated at this time any illusions about commitment towards more or less in this regard the organization of the Games and the Games of the work).

This is the story, the Administration is death, is the function of Power, State Capital, any Institution of dominating our lives. The function is well described thus: Death is future. Do not talk, do not talk to your children from small, nothing more than that: their future, education, preparation (including gymnastics, among others), are for a purpose, to be a man, a woman of tomorrow.

This is the onset of Administration death. Death is given because it is administered Future, and 'Future' means 'what does not happen'; what does not happen, which is always invented ahead; what does not happen, as my death, which does not happen. What is invented ahead and exerting all its power from the future where nothing happens.

That is the creation of empty time after starting the Future and also going to devastate, to become mere history memories of the past but the future starting with the creation of empty time, the creation of boredom, which is an essential feature Arts in the service of capital. ? Also fine arts music concerts of classical music, fine poetry, that they call, but also the Arts designed the multitudes of the people, sports among them, and others, are designed to produce boredom: Administration death, creation of empty time, boredom, they are the same thing.

These often produce istituciones to children and young or old, they produce boredom in a straightforward manner: to bore; but most of the time, no: they are produced in a sneaky way, ie, produce boredom them into believing they are having fun. That is the great secret of this technique has developed the Power: bored without realizing (as Brassens said of women in relation to the game of love in one of his songs "Sans s'en apercevoir"). Getting bored is not realizing the way par excellence, and it's so easy to fool people, it's so easy. It's so easy to cheat, it's so easy to make them believe that they have interest in what they are doing, studies or work: they like the work they have chosen; make them think, to convince a guy that is that he likes it Informatics (I do not speak and Engineering because that's still []), say Computer or Economics, who like them, I would go well: it is utterly incredible, can not be more than a lie, but it's so easy to think so, and that to work by all means is the technique that Power knows.

With regard to this art is that of civil engineers and others who have brought me to this function, I have to also remember one thing (a thing) in this domain of the end, it eats everything it can happen, also appears quite clear. With engineers who publish the magazine OP, in Barcelona (Public Works), more than once had occasion to intervene also noting regarding the problems of planning (ie, destruction of cities for urban conglomerates that power needs costruir) remind that manages? manages? means 'manage to overcome the natural obstacles called'.

Those times that I recall that an engineer is faced with a ravine or a lot of annoying to the rail or to the costruction of any building and contrived, so wonderful ways as yet we are given remember rocks, overcoming it, is a time when we attended this game which is also of children: wit trying to overcome any obstacles that oppose one and finding the most appropriate and most effective tricks often. That was Engineering.

Well what you see and for many years the Engineering and Architecture with it, have been reduced. What natural obstacles may be that wit has to overcome when everything is dictated from above: niches blocks of houses (or rather muriendas) that costituyen urban conglomerates, what materials may have to overcome obstacles to get up everywhere, if the only obstacle is precisely its promoter is Money? Money dominates thanks to the advancement of all mechanical, dominates the space so you do not have to worry for anything or costs, or rocks, or mountains, or beaches, because everything is pre-leveled by Operation Money itself, and the artist, the architect, the engineer does not have to go behind the artist too, by the way, occasionally makes a great artistic mess to put you a block of another block of niches and niches to decorate the operation I am telling to you blatantly right? And all this, though, with the artist, the engineer, the less you can do, because all you can do is what is done again, but yet so can reach rank illustrious name , which are the gaps prizes Power provides any type of artists, also to these.

I was hurt a lot often another appearance of order in Engineering Railroad: those wonders of our remaining still half remains buried by the invasion of HSL and other things that today we are sold, those mills as was the railroad flowing above the Douro from Porto to near the border with Spain, among the ravines and vines; and many others like them, who have been abandoned around: wit. When one, the old railways, paths of the tracks, it was these things, like I was just feeling the ingenuity manifested in life, and thus giving some game: has eaten everything in order; the law is the administration of death, and that means arriving soon. A train can not have any other commitment, can not serve people through moments of his life between this and that, and as Don Antonio Machado "London, Madrid, Ponferrada, / so cute lament to get away, / the worst is arrival "backwards. Just the opposite, none of that may be because the only law? Unique?, The only movable railway development like the cars and all the others, is to arrive soon. That's it. One examines his fellow AVE occasionally, and says "What pussies happen to these gentlemen and ladies who have such a hurry to be in half an hour or an hour in Seville or wherever, if you never had ? noticed people hurry, how come this has now left them in a hurry ", the force is coming, coming soon and the sooner the better - right? -.

I'm talking about death, death always future, 'arrive soon' is. I mean, this is also presented in a sneaky way, but when you offer them a great advantage, the great progress reached in less time, get the sooner they are offering to you on a platter your own death, but it is so necessary ... "As I have nothing left to do in this world, it is best to arrive as soon as possible", ie end. This is the law and this is what happens.

Well, finish, luckily, as I said a couple of times, all I tell them is so-so, (I get what's left of my people-that-doesn't-exist, the heart), is well but never at all ('all' is claim [ideal]); luckily never is, and why I'm here, because I think even though the reason for this meeting are the Olympic Games in the year-to-know-God-when, I care a damn, and istalaciones that can be programmed for it and everything else, I know that despite everything, because occasionally you may have an oversight; an oversight such as this, to bring me to me, an oversight that can pass well and things that were not foreseen.

Why I'm here, and I'll shut it for now and let them spread the word, when they want.

     Moderator - To see who has the floor? Come, ask things Augustine. I dare not eh, because, come on, what you said is true, do you understand?

     - The fun theme you've mencionao, this, distracting but fun is not it, it seems that today has not changed the character of fun about what it meant at the time of Pindar, is say, the power is ...? say? has the same effect at the time that it does this so?, you see, and ...?

     AGC - Yeah, yeah. But progressing eh? I brought them examples of the old-as I said-as they mirror eh, to see the monstrosity of an ode of Pindar and everything else, but in the mirror to see what is happening to us: making progress . Indeed, the technical staff to bore without noticing always has been, always the king and his priests, in primitive tribes, have sought to make this happen, so people do not have to give war and not to bore realize I have her fun-religious functions, chants, all that, anything to bore inadvertently. It's the same forever (come on, 'always', in this History, that the truth is it's not much, are about ten thousand years for nothing right?), But-will-within history's all the same time, but progresand o.

     Moderator - Now, Isabel.

     - There is also a progress that has been ... has really done a multiplier effect, which is quite evident that the effect of retransmission. From there the Mass Media Training's commandment there is only entertainment, but the retransmission of the commandment of entertainment. And this is a really devastating effect because, you, anywhere you go in, there are constantly background a kind of entertainment or communicative game, either on screen or in a taxi when you go, and you have to be constantly listening games jokes accompanied by laughter, laughter obviously false they are set by the media themselves right? And this is a kind of disposition or very, very unfortunate, very terrible administration.

     AGC - Yeah, yeah. Part of the information in general. Information is the major industry of power, and those things that are part of Isabel quote the deadly work of the information. But it's quite easy to be more or less agree with what I said. What I most want is ... Many of you have an obligation to defend the regime, because, after all, you, as I say, are made half; you are not? neither?, are not unknown people playing, and we do not know anything, are made half as anyone, and to try to wipe some illusions was better to defend them, to defend them here.

     - I wanted to ask, I found some ambiguity when ...

     AGC - A little [higher].

     - ... When you say that everything is repeated but progressing, that 'progress'? Could qualify it, do you have any hope that progress?

     AGC - Yes: getting worse; getting worse. Ie Power has obviously always been bad for people. Power, remember (you were not, it seems to me), but remember that I started placing you ahead this: Power can not give any good, that's the first; Capital is nothing good move. The State, the Capital, can not give more than substitutes, and this had to be so from the beginning of history, that is, without exaggeration, about ten thousand years old: since you started having this form of management that is history. But obviously-Progressive-worst ever, ever do that but worse, more mortíferamente, without ever reaching the end, to do so at all, because then the Administration would do if nothing was really done. His ideal is that they are actually turning to an end, but is never reached.

     Moderator - Come this question.

     AGC - Ask or whatever, or ...

     Moderator - ... or affirmation of an idea.

     - I then want ...

     AGC - Defense of illusions, because if not, no.

     - A defense, yes.

     AGC - A defense.

     - I want to make a defense of the order or the issue ... the end goal: for more interesting games, including chess, have even ... (and other oriental type GO, or something), they must be always enough foreshadowing at least I played on, ie, they have pursued himself in the player's imagination, so that interest and grace copper right?

     AGC - Yeah right, do not exaggerate. I do not think I've recognized exagerao because when I spoke of competitiveness and how the children themselves invent competitions and why the possibility that between the game and still did not kill him at all. It is simply the outer end especially (of which I have given examples with the history of the acquisition of players for next season's football team this or that), the more outside, the more from Above, is when it becomes more deadly.

     - Yes, but that is the idea of ​​prize ...

     AGC - Yes, the game, the game.

     - ... The concept of award, pedagogy ...

     AGC - That, for example.

     - ... Is a mistake, because it is extrinsic, that is what they call extrinsic motivation.

     AGC - Exactly, exactly. That, fine, fine. That's it. The same, of education, of ludus in that thing, it becomes a job (and Schole) is the prize, the future, you win the future. In any education degree examination has eaten everything, that is the end: the exam. It's how it's done up in universities. The aim, yes, you are doing many things, research and such, but the domain of what is clearly a palpable way is clear, is examined, the end of course examination, opposition to the end of the race or the diploma or puñeta right? Everything, everything, and also boldly: the boys still continues to praise them as a good thing, they have a great future, and the future they have, and this is a guy with Future, and all that right? I think today many are beginning to tire a bit to hear about future; I am happy to admit a bit occasionally, but since then the roll is still used, they are still getting all that Future can, yes.

     - Augustine, let's see: the purpose, it is ... may be the prize and is what bothers quite possible real game, could not we make a deal to put an ingredient of chance, which could no longer be the prize order? And for example, because in some games, gymnasts or such, play dice it touches them. Then the pole touch him jump length or do not know that. And then that would be an ingredient that totally would hate to order. Could not we make a change of some games were games?

     AGC - No: I think one has fabricao costrucción a bit disjointed, because if that were done, it would appear that you would ask "And then what is the relationship between chance to work in the prize draw and what we are doing now ? ". You're joining two things: game play; because the other, the chance is another type of game, is a game that is known everywhere as a game (the game of poker, the game briscola? huh?), and the presence of chance not delete this submission game to his last, a victory right? Sure, he's playing it. Whenever you are playing something money playing, but not money is called, what is at stake is money. And if you 'is the play', as they say so often, talking almost like life or existence, for the same. No, I think your invention might not work: the game that [] at the end, with chance would be a different game that would have little to do with what you were doing in the previous. Okay, you can invent more ways to defend.

     Moderator - Yes

     - I wanted to make kind of a defense of Power: many times when I hear the word 'power' I associate directly to greed or lust for domination, and often believe that the definition of 'power' is the ability to do something right? So we here, well, studied engineering or we are interested in engineering, we always interesting in our ability to do things, ie our powers is not it, from the person at the time ... in the Stone Age could turn ... he learned how to light a fire, which gave an awesome for lighting power to scare away a beast, or heat, warming up the power that we have managed now to illuminate this room, or ... well, able to get water, etc.. I think many times the power must not only involve the desire to dominate, but also how we survive, how we do things, and ... I think that we all seek that power through knowledge; knowledge ends up being a power.

     AGC - Or the opposite: knowledge are just a single search. Well, well, joy or that of 'power' joy has much to do with what I estao exalting as ingenuity to overcome the natural difficulties calls. I think if you look, comes to the same thing. Words, even the vulgar tongue, are ambiguous, and the word 'power', as tremendous. I think when I have used is clear, well, in what sense the job: Power from Above, which is the same as the state and capitalism. You can not think of anyone who has ambitions, those are things of little people who are only in the service of power. Power is the power itself: the office, the Institution, the state itself, the Capital; and the little people that make bankers and officials have little importance or worth it address more than the media involved to distract the staff. And that sense he has used (you give a more general term), which comes to the league that what I said wit, and ... unfortunately these two senses of the word are not only different, but opposite in a sense. 'Power' as skill, ingenuity, to overcome, to solve problems that arise, such as natural, is the opposite of power that comes from above that just nullifies any way that power and ingenuity. Power, this coming from up in the death of the possibilities. When I said I was here because nothing is ever completely closed, that means 'possibilities'. Anything is always possible because, contrary to the ideal that dominates us, nothing is made entirely or forever. Those are the possibilities and those possibilities in the game case and those findings of power or ingenuity also meet, but ideally from Above that is all done in advance, as I have tried to show respect to Architecture and Engineering : it is done in advance, and in that sense can reasonably say: "Power is the death of the possibilities." A death that is never quite satisfied but it's there, in the ideal, the attempt. MySpace It's very possible that there are also other words that I have used and which are provided, as he found, other senses appropriate clarifying or whatever. Yes.

    - I see ... you said something that suggested I might be a consistency between the game understood in the sense of non-finalist, determines or not, non-compulsive: when you've seen play football and you say, "Man, these kids are having fun, "within a context that has acted totalitarian power in the sense you're talking about. So the question would be ... and some would ask why before we see the story of how fun these days, which is primarily the citizen, because sitting in that agreement and integrao boredom and how the same issue was seen at the time Pindar, because I imagine that there was a cultural industry as there is now

     AGC - Yeah not a question of time. I said that certainly from the beginning of history has already been attempted, and only that has become increasingly more powerful, more oppressive, but no more. Even within the Power everything organized, thanks to the Ideal that governs us is false, if occasionally you can find something a breath. I've told my attempts to these occasionally to watch a football game: the game can go so well that many of his players, or all of them, and feel taken for a moment to forget why they are there, what they are playing and what they are earning, up there. And on many other occasions right? In one I have called 'niche' housing blocks, which are already the vast majority of housing in the First World, is death and istalada? No, that's just what they want, but you can find there, as a boy, a girl, occasionally, who was born there, it seemed that he must be dead, well, no, occasionally to Maybe you think of anything yet, it's like the poor (as if they bring their grandmothers past) what it was like to live agreed, and one thing that comes out is not mere obedience, which is not ask the doll sends television, which is not to obey, you get something contrary to that, we do not know where he gets right? No, does not istalada really not there death, it's just what you want the ideal, yes, there nothing happens more than what has already happened, that is nothing more than what television send desired, that death is met. This does not get it quite simply.

     - But it is true that there seems to be a very fat or very front war between so-called megaprojects (is that not called projects are called mega projects) and those occurrences that come from below, for example in agriculture or issues water, or more or less solving small local areas or very, very specific geographical issues. The imposition of the megaproject that, because not only did that study in Extremadura Naredo looted already beginning to see how the mega project, which comes from Above, power management is against the possibilities ...

     AGC - Sure, sure. Yes, this is done well. Power for the world and we are like a plane, operate from up in the plane. Now we understand that the more you go up top power, then naturally becomes more view ... the view of the planes becomes larger, it becomes wider in the plane. And you call those things so horrendous ways such as 'mega', consists precisely in this, and one seen in the coexistence of small projects and large projects from Above, where the dominant power is. That is, when it comes to a project that is very top (any destruction that you are leaving the house in the street, you have levantao all cobblestones and all this) most final is dependent on Altitude: for if the mayor of a village takes a measure of those, it can still be taken to walk keeping the clothes is not it, but right here in Madrid, where do you appeal?, where you appeal when you want that? "Why pussies have had to raise all this cobblestone street that nobody, to my knowledge, had asked?": Above, the State, very top, and the more Top is thus more final. It is the sense. So God sees us and sees us Lord, Power: from above, as if we were on a plane.

     Moderator - Well, are there any more questions?

     - One of the data is also handled sports events, apart from the millions spent with athletes and this is the number of viewers who see it, and say, "This meeting is retrasmite in 200 countries and will see twenty billion people. "So, since this seems to be the epitome of fun. And then you see how the masses of sheep raze the city when a team wins a title, and burn all the pillaging.

     AGC - is the computation of success. Success is measured effectively and is measured by counting the million head, not just in sports eh, unfortunately, any idol what song is still called, any idol stage, computes its success of the way: millions of records sold. Millions of albums sold millions assistance, and that's how you measured. The millionaire count things is the way the Power acojonarnos looking for, simply. Because the figures are actually very acojonantes, and there are few things that are both right? That neither oppose when they tell you there are millions who have bought the disc that guy, who will dare to say that this is a mandanga, it sucks, does not it, almost no one can:? Have bought millions how can be a ...? It's ... and wonder why it can not be anything?, Right? Right.

     Moderator - Well, last, please.

     - What seems to me that impresses me most is where the difference between ingenuity to overcome a difficulty, for example, that we lack water, water storage and it can be carried around the world, and when no acted by ingenuity but acts to concentrate the power itself, the service of power: concentrate dam Four Gorges gonna get to give water to all areas and regions that are subject to Chinese power or power that is, and then if one region we exited frog, we can cut off the supply, and that region passes into absolute poverty, while regions that lend themselves to the service of power, or are more likely to continue to power wherever , can you find those taps open and ... and another thing, that not only the problem is that if expiry wit no difficulties, but that becomes ... go against the natural water cycle springs, rivers, swamps because normally those you do is bogging things, because rivers disappear, disappearing lakes, streams disappear, everything disappears. And only in the Sierra de Guadarrama, in the time I was tiny and I could walk there, had always perpetual snow until August and September and there were probably, in those mountains, there was more water across the marsh who made our General, probably.

     AGC - Yeah Well, on the subject that touches us, the difference between the two ways that you have exposed a little personally, is that the second (which is not wit that overcomes the previous difficulties), the second is not that obedience. That's what officials with Power: obey. They are commanded to do what is commanded, any of the projects you've told arrasadores, are at the service and make it; and do, that is, there is no place or none for inventive, nor wit, nor nothing, no more than obedience, obedience to the law of money, which is what rules.

     Moderator - The last, sorry ... is that we throw ...

     - No, I just wanted to say, maybe I'm a bad student, and when he speaks of power, and speaks in such terms as generic, 'Power from Above', it seems that we are forgetting something that is ... or are you forgetting, teacher, something that is inevitable: you are up above the stage, took the time from a teacher, and you are asking us to attack them. That dynamic Power Fighting me is at least surprising, in the sense that perhaps only silence.

     AGC - Why? Why?

     - Well, just because it is fall into the trap of Power ...

     AGC - Well, first of all, what I have spoken generally of 'Power', after what I said this guy should not be like that huh? I've explicao sense that the word 'power' is, when he took that and such. And, moreover, is that it is a matter of measurement eh, is that you here are 30 or 40 people, many of them more or less friends, some strangers, and I'm up on a platform of authority very short, although it seems otherwise, very small ... so ...

     - No, but that ... I did not want to attack there, of course.

     AGC - ... I do not see why it is surprising that I ask you to defend the party from whom you have, I have too, submissive Power, defendáis against what I said. Here it is, maybe even has occurred, it is not so surprising. Ie when it is not is when the thing is ... (come on, 'we should be', when it is much less) is when a thing is a much more successful platform, dragging people millionaires. It is always up to the morons of the TV you can answer them, let me, but of course there is a difference huh? To me, in this situation, it's pretty easy.

     - Yeah, but I'm used to their classes in some places that I have heard, through each height. And, moreover, he said it because he makes much of the power, but almost, that 'almost' the thing, which also has its historical examples are not complete, considerable wealth, which is learned much more than talking the Power of God, abstract.

     AGC - Yes sir, that's why I was ...

     - You have not hablao almost.

     AGC - I've said, I've not only hablao but that is why I said that 'it is never entirely' (I've said it four or five times), among other things, is why I'm here. Because it's never quite, because if I believed that the ideal was accomplished, that was done everything I've described in a most gloomy as possible, if you believe that all this was done, for even he had come here not ? So yes.

     Moderator. Well, Augustine, we could be here for hours ...

     AGC - No, no. This has its ...

     Moderator - ... it's almost better to organize another conference, another talk ...
     AGC - No, no, no. Not organize anything. You have already tired much, Angel. You have already tired a lot in bringing me here, not you organize more, yes. Let's leave it for another time. I retire and nothing delighted....

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